Set 30 — The Circle Diagram
Set 29 turned two tests into five circuit parameters and then solved the circuit at each slip of interest. The circle diagram reaches the same answers by a different route: plot the no-load current phasor and the blocked-rotor current phasor, note that the locus joining them is a circle, and every quantity the machine can be asked about — current, power factor, slip, torque, output, losses, efficiency — becomes a length measured on that one figure. No equation is solved twice, and the whole operating range is visible at once.
No diagram accompanies these problems, so every construction step is given as a pair of coordinates in amperes: the horizontal component of each current, and the vertical component. Plot them on ordinary graph paper with the two axes to the same scale and the numbers quoted in each solution can be measured directly off your own drawing. The scale is fixed once and for all by the observation that a vertical length of one ampere represents \(\sqrt3\,V_L\) watts.
Why the locus is a circle. The stator current is the exciting current plus a load component \(V_{ph}/(R+jX_{01})\) in which only \(R\) varies with slip. As \(R\) runs from \(\infty\) to its standstill value, that load component traces a semicircle of diameter \(V_{ph}/X_{01}\) standing on a horizontal diameter.
Axes and scale. Take \(OY\) along the applied voltage and \(OX\) at 90° lagging. A current \(I\) at power-factor angle \(\phi\) is plotted at
\[ \left(I\sin\phi,\; I\cos\phi\right) \]so a vertical length of 1 A represents \(\sqrt3\,V_L\) watts of three-phase power. Every power on the diagram is a vertical distance.
Two test points fix everything. The no-load point \(O'\) comes from the no-load test; the short-circuit point \(A\) from the blocked-rotor test scaled to full voltage:
\[ I_{sc} = I_{BR}\frac{V_{\text{rated}}}{V_{BR}}, \qquad P_{sc} = P_{BR}\left(\frac{V_{\text{rated}}}{V_{BR}}\right)^{\!2} \]The centre lies on the horizontal line through \(O'\), equidistant from \(O'\) and \(A\).
Two lines divide the ordinate. The output line \(O'A\) and the torque line \(O'F\), where \(F\) divides the vertical at \(A\) in the ratio of the standstill rotor and stator copper losses. For any point \(P\) on the circle, measured vertically:
\[ \text{input} = P\to OX, \quad P_g = P\to \text{torque line}, \quad P_m = P\to \text{output line} \]Everything else is a ratio of those lengths:
\[ s = \frac{P_{cu2}}{P_g}, \qquad \eta = \frac{P_m}{P_{\text{in}}}, \qquad \cos\phi = \frac{y_P}{|OP|}, \qquad T = \frac{P_g}{\omega_s} \]The rotor copper loss \(P_{cu2}\) is the gap between the torque line and the output line, measured vertically at \(P\).
Maximum torque and maximum output occur where the tangent to the circle is parallel to the torque line and the output line respectively. Each point lies a radius from the centre along the normal to that line:
\[ P_{\max} = C + \frac{r}{\sqrt{1+m^2}}\left(-m,\;1\right) \]The construction assumes a constant loss. The whole no-load input — core loss, friction and windage, and no-load stator copper loss — is treated as fixed and is absorbed by starting the output line at \(O'\) rather than at \(O\). Stator resistance must be known separately to place the torque line.
The following tests were made on a 400 V, 50 Hz, 4-pole, three-phase star-connected induction motor. All readings are line quantities and total three-phase power.
| Test | Voltage | Current | Power |
|---|---|---|---|
| No load | 400 V | 9.0 A | 1300 W |
| Blocked rotor | 100 V | 45.0 A | 2700 W |
Construct the circle diagram: find the current scale, the coordinates of the no-load point \(O'\) and the short-circuit point \(A\), the centre and radius of the circle, and its diameter. Verify the diameter against the machine's leakage reactance.
Fix the axes and the scale first, because every later reading depends on them. Let \(OY\) lie along the applied voltage and \(OX\) lag it by 90°. A current of magnitude \(I\) lagging by \(\phi\) is then plotted at \((I\sin\phi,\;I\cos\phi)\), and the three-phase power it carries is
Also useful later: with \(\omega_s = 2\pi(1500)/60 = 157.08\) rad/s, one ampere of vertical length is \(692.8/157.08 = 4.411\) N·m of torque.
The no-load point. Its power factor comes from the no-load reading:
The vertical coordinate is simply \(P_0/\sqrt3V_L = 1300/692.8 = 1.88\) A, which is a quicker route and a useful check.
The short-circuit point. The blocked-rotor test was run at 100 V; at standstill the machine is a linear impedance, so current scales with voltage and power with its square:
Again the vertical coordinate checks: \(43200/692.8 = 62.35\) A. Scaling the voltage does not change the power-factor angle, because the impedance is unchanged.
Locate the centre. The diameter is horizontal and passes through \(O'\), so the centre has \(y_C = y_{O'} = 1.88\). Its abscissa follows from \(|CO'| = |CA|\):
Check: \(|CA| = \sqrt{(168.86-100.25)^2+(62.35-1.88)^2} = \sqrt{68.61^2+60.47^2} = 91.45\;\checkmark\)
The construction, as a table to plot from. Both axes to the same scale, say 20 A per large division:
| Point | Meaning | \(x\) (A) | \(y\) (A) |
|---|---|---|---|
| \(O\) | Origin, foot of the voltage axis | 0 | 0 |
| \(O'\) | No-load point, \(s \to 0\) | 8.80 | 1.88 |
| \(C\) | Centre of the circle | 100.25 | 1.88 |
| \(B\) | Far end of the diameter, \(s \to \infty\) | 191.71 | 1.88 |
| \(A\) | Short-circuit point, \(s = 1\) | 168.86 | 62.35 |
| \(D\) | Foot of the perpendicular from \(A\) | 168.86 | 0 |
Points on the upper arc, from \(y = 1.88 + \sqrt{91.45^2-(x-100.25)^2}\). The motoring region runs anticlockwise from \(O'\) through the top of the circle to \(A\):
| \(x\) (A) | 20 | 40 | 60 | 80 | 100 | 120 | 140 | 160 | 168.86 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| \(y\) (A) | 45.73 | 70.67 | 83.99 | 91.06 | 93.33 | 91.17 | 84.24 | 71.12 | 62.35 |
Nine points plus \(O'\) and \(B\) are ample to draw the arc by hand; a compass set to 91.45 A on \(C\) is better still.
Verify the diameter against the reactance. The load component of the short-circuit current is \(A - O'\) taken as a phasor:
Exactly the diameter obtained geometrically, as the theory promises. Note that this \(X_{01}\) is a little larger than the 1.204 Ω that \(V_{ph}/I_{sc}\) would give in Set 29, because the exciting current has been taken out of the short-circuit current first.
For the machine of Problem 1 the stator resistance is 0.20 Ω per phase. Locate the output line and the torque line, giving the equation of each, and separate the standstill copper loss into its stator and rotor parts. State what vertical distance measured from a point on the circle represents in each case.
Drop a perpendicular from \(A\) to the horizontal axis and mark where the no-load level cuts it. Call the foot \(D\) and the intersection with the horizontal through \(O'\) the point \(E\):
\(AD\) is the whole input at standstill and full voltage; \(ED\) is the fixed loss carried over from the no-load test. What is left, \(AE\), is the copper loss in both windings.
Split \(AE\) with the stator resistance, which is the one piece of information the two tests cannot supply:
Place \(F\) on \(AD\) so that \(AF\) is the rotor copper loss and \(FE\) the stator copper loss:
| Point | \(x\) (A) | \(y\) (A) | Segment | Represents |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| \(A\) | 168.86 | 62.35 | \(AF\) = 32.42 A | Rotor copper loss, 22460 W |
| \(F\) | 168.86 | 29.94 | \(FE\) = 28.06 A | Stator copper loss, 19440 W |
| \(E\) | 168.86 | 1.88 | \(ED\) = 1.88 A | Fixed loss, 1300 W |
| \(D\) | 168.86 | 0 | \(AD\) = 62.35 A | Total standstill input, 43200 W |
Draw the two lines from \(O'\). The output line joins \(O'\) to \(A\); the torque line joins \(O'\) to \(F\):
Both pass through \(O'(8.80,\,1.88)\), as they must: at no load the output is zero and the torque is very nearly zero.
What the vertical distances mean. For any operating point \(P = (x,y)\) on the circle, measuring straight down:
| Measured from \(P\) down to | Expression | Quantity |
|---|---|---|
| the axis \(OX\) | \(y\) | Total input power |
| the torque line | \(y - (0.1753x+0.333)\) | Air-gap power \(P_g\), i.e. torque in synchronous watts |
| the output line | \(y - (0.3779x-1.450)\) | Mechanical output \(P_m\) |
| output line to torque line | difference of the two | Rotor copper loss \(P_{cu2}\) |
| torque line to the level of \(O'\) | \((0.1753x+0.333) - 1.88\) | Stator copper loss \(P_{cu1}\) |
| level of \(O'\) down to \(OX\) | \(1.88\), everywhere | Fixed loss, 1300 W |
Multiply any of these by 692.8 to get watts. The slip follows immediately as \(s = P_{cu2}/P_g\), the ratio of two vertical lengths measured at the same abscissa. Note that all four bands stack in that order at every abscissa, so the four powers always add to the input.
Why the torque line has to be a straight line through \(O'\). At any operating point the stator copper loss is \(3I_1^2R_1\) and the total copper loss is \(3I_1^2(R_1+R_2')\), so the two are always in the same fixed proportion — the proportion measured at standstill. A quantity proportional to the total copper loss is a vertical distance below the output line, so a fixed fraction of it is a vertical distance below a second line drawn through the same starting point. The stator resistance sets the slope and nothing else does.
The motor of Problems 1 and 2 is rated 25 kW output. From the circle diagram determine, at that output,
- the line current and power factor
- the slip and the speed
- the torque
- the efficiency, with a full loss balance.
Convert the required output into a length. The operating point is wherever the circle stands 25 kW above the output line:
Graphically: draw a line parallel to the output line and 36.08 A above it, and mark where it cuts the circle.
That parallel line is
Substituting into \((x-100.25)^2+(y-1.88)^2 = 91.45^2\) and collecting terms:
Two intersections, as there must be: the machine can deliver 25 kW at a small slip on the stable side of the curve, or at a large slip on the unstable side. Only the first is an operating point.
The operating point:
Read the three vertical distances at \(x = 17.76\):
Slip and speed follow from the definition of slip as the fraction of the air-gap power lost in the rotor:
Torque, from the air-gap power and the synchronous speed:
Equivalently \(P_m/\omega_m = 25000/(2\pi\times1428/60) = 167.2\) N·m. The two agree because the diagram treats friction and windage as part of the fixed loss removed on the stator side, so no separate torque is subtracted at the shaft.
Efficiency and the loss balance:
| Item | How obtained | Watts |
|---|---|---|
| Stator input | \(y = 41.34\) A | 28644 |
| Fixed loss (core + F&W) | level of \(O'\), \(1.88\) A | 1300 |
| Stator copper loss | torque line down to that level, 1.57 A | 1088 |
| Air-gap power \(P_g\) | \(P\) to the torque line, 37.90 A | 26256 |
| Rotor copper loss | torque line to output line, 1.81 A | 1257 |
| Output | \(P\) to the output line, 36.08 A | 25000 |
The four bands add exactly: \(1300+1088+1257+25000 = 28645\) W. One caution about the stator copper figure. The construction apportions the standstill copper loss linearly along the horizontal, which is exact for the rotor but only approximate for the stator, because the exciting current is included in \(I_1\) and not in the load component. Computing it directly, \(3I_1^2R_1 = 3(45.0)^2(0.20) = 1215\) W against the diagram's 1088 W. The 127 W difference is 0.4% of the input and 0.5% on the efficiency — the accuracy limit of the method, and the reason the circle diagram is a design and teaching tool rather than a test standard.
From the same diagram, locate the point of maximum torque and the point of maximum output. For each give the coordinates, the value of the maximum, the slip, the speed, the stator current and the power factor. Compare both with the full-load figures of Problem 3.
Where the maxima are. Torque is the vertical distance to the torque line, so it is greatest where the circle is furthest from that line — the point at which the tangent is parallel to it. The same argument applies to output and the output line. For a line of slope \(m\) the point is
and the maximum vertical distance is
Maximum torque, with the torque line \(m = 0.1753\), \(c = 0.333\) and \(\sqrt{1+m^2} = 1.0153\):
Its slip, speed, current and power factor. The output at that point is the distance to the output line:
The breakdown slip is very nearly 20% and the breakdown torque is \(338.8/167.2 = 2.03\) times full load — a typical general-purpose machine.
Maximum output, with the output line \(m = 0.3779\), \(c = -1.450\) and \(\sqrt{1+m^2} = 1.0690\):
And its slip and efficiency:
Maximum output occurs at a smaller slip than maximum torque, because past that point the extra torque no longer compensates for the falling speed.
The three operating points side by side:
| Point | Coordinates | \(I_1\) | p.f. | Output | Torque | Slip | \(\eta\) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Full load | (17.76, 41.34) | 45.0 A | 0.919 | 25.0 kW | 167.2 N·m | 0.048 | 87.3% |
| Maximum output | (67.93, 87.43) | 110.7 A | 0.790 | 43.8 kW | 331.6 N·m | 0.159 | 72.3% |
| Maximum torque | (84.46, 91.96) | 124.9 A | 0.737 | 42.6 kW | 338.8 N·m | 0.200 | 66.9% |
Both maxima lie far outside anything the machine could sustain: 110 A and 125 A against a rated 45 A, at efficiencies in the sixties and seventies. They are transient capabilities, not ratings.
Using the same diagram, find
- the starting current and starting torque with the motor switched direct on to 400 V, and both as multiples of the full-load values
- the starting torque and the supply current with an autotransformer starter at the 60% and 80% tappings
- the tapping that would give a starting torque equal to the full-load torque, and the tapping that would give half of it.
Starting conditions are the point \(A\) itself, because \(s = 1\) there. Nothing new needs constructing:
The starting torque is the segment \(AF\) found in Problem 2 — the vertical distance from \(A\) down to the torque line, which at \(x = 168.86\) is exactly \(F\):
At standstill the air-gap power is entirely rotor copper loss — the output is zero and \(A\) lies on the output line. This is why the starting torque is read to the torque line and never to the output line.
Note what the machine is offering. Four times rated current for 86% of rated torque is a poor bargain, and it is the fundamental objection to direct-on-line starting: the current is set by the standstill impedance, which is small, while the torque is set by \(I^2R_2'\), which at \(s = 1\) is only a third of the input.
Reduced-voltage starting scales the diagram, it does not redraw it. Applying a fraction \(x\) of rated voltage divides every current on the circle by \(1/x\) and every power by \(1/x^2\), because the standstill impedance is unchanged. With an autotransformer the supply current is smaller again by \(x\), since the starter transforms it:
At the 60% and 80% tappings:
The autotransformer is the only reduced-voltage method for which the supply current falls as \(x^2\) rather than \(x\) — the same \(x^2\) as the torque. That is its whole advantage over a series resistance or reactance.
The tapping for full-load torque:
Greater than one, which means it cannot be done. This machine does not produce full-load torque at standstill even on full voltage, so no reduced-voltage starter can be asked for it. Any load requiring more than 0.855 pu of torque to break away needs a slip-ring machine with rotor resistance — Set 31.
The tapping for half full-load torque, which is what a fan or a lightly loaded pump asks for:
| Tapping | Motor voltage | Motor current | Supply current | Starting torque |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 100% (direct on line) | 400 V | 180.0 A | 180.0 A (4.00 pu) | 143.0 N·m (0.855 pu) |
| 80% | 320 V | 144.0 A | 115.2 A (2.56 pu) | 91.5 N·m (0.547 pu) |
| 76.5% | 306 V | 137.6 A | 105.3 A (2.34 pu) | 83.6 N·m (0.500 pu) |
| 60% | 240 V | 108.0 A | 64.8 A (1.44 pu) | 51.5 N·m (0.308 pu) |
| 57.7% (star–delta equivalent) | 231 V | 103.9 A | 60.0 A (1.33 pu) | 47.7 N·m (0.285 pu) |
The last row is included because a star–delta starter is exactly equivalent to a 57.7% autotransformer tapping, on a machine wound for delta running. Set 31 derives that equivalence.
Complete the performance survey of this machine from the one diagram. Find
- the current, power factor, slip, speed, torque and efficiency at 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% and 125% of the 25 kW rating
- the load at which the efficiency is greatest
- the point of maximum power factor, located as the tangent from the origin, and its distance from the full-load point.
Repeat the intersection of Problem 3 at each output. For an output \(P_m\) the parallel line is \(y = 0.3779x - 1.450 + P_m/692.8\), and the smaller of the two roots is the operating point. The results:
| Load | Output | Point \((x,y)\) | \(I_1\) | p.f. | Slip | Speed | Torque | \(\eta\) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 25% | 6.25 kW | (9.27, 11.07) | 14.4 A | 0.767 | 0.0103 | 1485 rpm | 40.2 N·m | 81.5% |
| 50% | 12.5 kW | (10.75, 20.66) | 23.3 A | 0.887 | 0.0214 | 1468 rpm | 81.3 N·m | 87.4% |
| 75% | 18.75 kW | (13.46, 30.70) | 33.5 A | 0.916 | 0.0337 | 1449 rpm | 123.5 N·m | 88.2% |
| 100% | 25.0 kW | (17.76, 41.34) | 45.0 A | 0.919 | 0.0479 | 1428 rpm | 167.2 N·m | 87.3% |
| 125% | 31.25 kW | (24.32, 52.85) | 58.2 A | 0.908 | 0.0652 | 1402 rpm | 212.8 N·m | 85.4% |
Read the shape of the curves off the table. Three features are worth naming, and all three are properties of every induction motor:
- Power factor climbs steeply from light load, because the magnetising current is fixed while the working current grows, then falls slowly once the leakage reactance begins to dominate.
- Slip is very nearly proportional to torque — 40.2, 81.3, 123.5, 167.2, 212.8 N·m against slips of 0.0103, 0.0214, 0.0337, 0.0479, 0.0652. The small departure from proportionality is the curvature of the torque–slip characteristic setting in.
- Efficiency rises quickly, flattens, and turns over well before full load.
The efficiency maximum. Efficiency is the ratio of two vertical distances, \((y - \text{output line})/y\), and searching the arc gives
Between 12.5 kW and 25 kW the efficiency never leaves the band 87.3–88.2%, which is why induction motors tolerate part loading so well and why the exact position of the peak is of little practical interest.
Maximum power factor. The power-factor angle is the angle between \(OP\) and the vertical, so it is least when \(OP\) is tangent to the circle. With \(|OC| = \sqrt{100.25^2+1.88^2} = 100.27\):
Locate the point of tangency and read what the machine is doing there. The tangent length is \(\sqrt{|OC|^2-r^2} = \sqrt{100.27^2-91.45^2} = 41.12\) A, so
| Maximum p.f. point | Full-load point | |
|---|---|---|
| Output | 22.97 kW | 25.00 kW |
| Current | 41.1 A | 45.0 A |
| Power factor | 0.9196 | 0.9188 |
| Slip | 0.0430 | 0.0479 |
| Efficiency | 87.7% | 87.3% |
The two points are 8% of rated output apart and their power factors differ in the fourth decimal place. That is not luck: a machine is designed so that its best power factor falls at or just below its rated load, because power factor is what the supply is billed for.
What the whole survey cost. Two test readings, one resistance measurement, one circle and two straight lines — and from them five complete operating points, two maxima, a starting condition and a power-factor optimum. Solving the equivalent circuit of Set 28 for the same nine points would mean nine complex divisions.
Key Formulas
| Quantity | Relation | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Power scale | \(1\ \text{A vertical} \equiv \sqrt3\,V_L\ \text{W}\) | 692.8 W here — Problem 1 |
| Torque scale | \(1\ \text{A vertical} \equiv \sqrt3V_L/\omega_s\ \text{N·m}\) | 4.411 N·m here — Problem 1 |
| Plotting a current | \((I\sin\phi,\; I\cos\phi)\) | Voltage along \(OY\) — Problem 1 |
| Scaling the BR test | \(I_{sc} = I_{BR}\dfrac{V}{V_{BR}},\quad P_{sc} = P_{BR}\left(\dfrac{V}{V_{BR}}\right)^2\) | Problem 1 |
| Centre of the circle | \(y_C = y_{O'}\), \(x_C\) from \(|CO'| = |CA|\) | Diameter horizontal — Problem 1 |
| Diameter | \(D = V_{ph}/X_{01}\) | \(X_{01}\) from the load component of \(I_{sc}\) — Problem 1 |
| Standstill copper loss | \(AE = P_{sc}-P_0\), split by \(P_{cu1} = 3I_{sc}^2R_1\) | Fixes the torque line — Problem 2 |
| Air-gap power | vertical distance to the torque line | \(T = P_g/\omega_s\) — Problems 3–5 |
| Mechanical output | vertical distance to the output line | Problems 3, 4, 6 |
| Slip | \(s = \dfrac{P_{cu2}}{P_g} = \dfrac{\text{torque line to output line}}{\text{point to torque line}}\) | Problems 3, 4, 6 |
| Efficiency | \(\eta = \dfrac{\text{point to output line}}{\text{point to } OX}\) | Problems 3, 6 |
| Tangent point of a maximum | \(C + \dfrac{r}{\sqrt{1+m^2}}(-m,\,1)\) | Problem 4 |
| Value of the maximum | \(d_{\max} = (y_C-mx_C-c) + r\sqrt{1+m^2}\) | Problem 4 |
| Maximum power factor | \(\sin\alpha = r/|OC|\), tangent from \(O\) | Problem 6 |
| Reduced-voltage starting | \(I \propto x,\quad T\propto x^2\) | Problem 5 |
Common Mistakes
Plotting the blocked-rotor current at the test voltage. The circle must pass through the standstill point at rated voltage: 180 A, not the 45 A actually measured — Problem 1.
Scaling the blocked-rotor power linearly with voltage. Current scales with \(V\) and power with \(V^2\), so 2700 W at 100 V is 43200 W at 400 V, not 10800 W — Problem 1.
Putting the centre on the perpendicular bisector of \(O'A\) and stopping there. It also has to lie on the horizontal through \(O'\); that second condition is what makes the construction determinate — Problem 1.
Using different scales on the two axes. The locus is then an ellipse, the compass construction fails, and every vertical distance is misread — Problem 1.
Measuring powers perpendicular to the output line. All powers are vertical distances, because only the vertical coordinate carries \(I\cos\phi\) — Problems 2 and 3.
Drawing the torque line without the stator resistance. The two tests alone cannot separate the two copper losses; the DC resistance is a third measurement and is indispensable — Problem 2.
Taking the starting torque as the distance from \(A\) to the output line. That distance is zero — \(A\) is on the output line. Starting torque is \(AF\), the distance to the torque line — Problem 5.
Choosing the wrong intersection when a given output is set. The parallel line cuts the circle twice; the point with the smaller \(x\) is the stable one. Here 136.04 would have given \(s = 0.42\) and 42% efficiency — Problem 3.
Assuming maximum torque and maximum output occur together. They lie at \(s = 0.200\) and \(s = 0.159\), on tangents to two different lines — Problem 4.
Dividing rotor copper loss by input power to get the slip. Slip is rotor copper loss over air-gap power. Using the input would give 0.044 instead of 0.048 here — Problem 3.
Quoting a maximum as a rating. Maximum output is 43.8 kW at 111 A on a machine rated 25 kW at 45 A; the winding would not survive a minute of it — Problem 4.
Forgetting that the fixed loss is charged before the output line starts. The output line begins at \(O'\), not at \(O\), which is exactly how the core loss and the friction and windage are removed — Problems 2 and 3.
Set 29 measured five parameters; this set drew one circle from the same two readings and then measured nine operating conditions off it. The two methods are the same physics presented differently, and the agreement between them is not a coincidence — Problem 1 recovered the leakage reactance from the geometry and got the diameter to check exactly. What the diagram adds is the whole picture at once: full load at \(s = 0.048\), breakdown at \(s = 0.200\), best power factor almost exactly at rated load, and the starting point \(A\) sitting far out to the right at four times rated current.
That last point is the one the diagram makes uncomfortable to ignore. A machine that draws four times rated current to produce 86% of rated torque cannot simply be switched on to a stiff supply above a few kilowatts, and every reduced-voltage remedy trades torque away faster than current, because one goes as \(x\) and the other as \(x^2\). The only escape is to change the rotor circuit itself.
Next: Set 31 — Starting Methods and Starter Calculations, where direct-on-line, star–delta, autotransformer and rotor-resistance starting are compared on one machine and the 1/3 factor is derived.